ACOJE ONLINE COMMUNITY

Do you believe in Reincarnation?

why ems?

wala lang,,,,nadala lang ako sa pinanood kong korean movie.....
kayo ba,,,kung naniniwala kayo sa reincarnation, anong gusto nyong maging....pag nabuhay kayo muli?
kaya naman ang admin natin eh natakot nung magsuggest akong magpalagay ng obituary...inalis tuloy (napikon ata)
jun... he he he.....

oo nga emma, ngayon ko lang napansin yon ah,,,nawala nga ano? ikaw kasi eh,
sinabihan mong baka ikaw mauna, natural,
hwag ka masyadong nanonood ng drama ha? masisira ang beauty mo nyan eh,,,
pero honestly,,, about reencarnation,,, scientifically
i dont believe on that,
am sorry po,,,
pero dahil sa kailangang mamili just in case na meron nga,,,
for this time,,, happinings lang,,,
well i would like to be BEATTLE,,, yong may parang lagari ang ipit nya,
UWANG ang tawag nila,,,
dollar kasi ang presyo nyan eh,,,
at for import pa sya, although illegal sya,
pag umabot ng 4 inch ang laki, libo na nag price nyan,
sa province palang yon ha? magkano na kaya sa ibang bansa,,,

Well, I think it depends on your religion. Pero parang may nabalitaan ako about this just recently, na wala na yata talaga nito? Or the other way around? Ako ok na sa aking maging alikabok, at least marami kang mapupuntahang lugar, hehehe.

Kung BIBLE ang pagbabasehan natin, may ganitong nakasulat:

At kung paanong itinakda sa mga tao ang mamatay na minsan, at pagkatapos nito ay ang paghuhukom;
(Heb 9:27)

In english,

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
(Heb 9:27)

So wala nang reincarnation, kasi lalabas may buhay ka ulit sa ibang anyo nga lang gaya ng hayop. And this is not a Christian belief, walang itinuro si Kristo na ganito even the apostles. If i am not mistaken this is a teaching of Hinduism, correct me if i'm wrong. You have only one chance to do good, pagkatapos nun paghuhukom... no more second chance.

It's nice to do GOOD & be GOOD, all the time!

IMHO, this is a hasty generalization. An assumption that all people are Christians. If it isn't a Christian belief, or Christ's and the Apostles' teaching, it doesn't necessarily follow that there is really no reincarnation. How would people know? Some people claim that they feel like they seem to have lived in the past, so many distant years from the present, and can even recall places and people who lived in the same age. Pero paano natin mapapatunayan? There isn't a known way at present in my knowledge. But still I, myself, do not reject and deny the possibility that my soul that resides in this body have already been in other bodies in the past. A story always have two sides. Either one can be true and the other is false, but there is an equal chance that the side which we believe to be true, might be the opposite.

Being with people of various religions made me realize that at some point, all of us have something in common. The purpose of religion is not to believe in what your preacher says, or what the Bible, Kuran, or any references' texts says, but for our lives to have a direction. Be it a Christian, a Moslem, Hindi, Buddhist, even Atheist, or whatever religious group, the most important thing is that we believe in something or someone powerful enough to influence our thoughts, thus leading us to a path we knew is worth traversing.

My apologies for whatever effect this humble opinion may cause. Again, this is just my humble opinion, and does not necessarily represent the opinion of any group to which I belong.

Good topic for discussion by the way, Tita Emma.

PEACE BROTHER!

I think you misunderstood my post.... my first sentence was "Kung BIBLE ang pagbabasehan natin..." which means I am referring to those who read the bible & would suggest that this excludes those who read the Quoran, the Books of Mormons, the Sanskrit or any other religious book or article which will also imply that i am talking to those who consider themselves "Christians".

Generalization? yes. Hasty? i don't think so. IMHO - i don't know what this means... if its an acronym for something not sweet hearing I don't want to hear about it.

Generally, I'm referring to BIBLE readers... if in one way or the other have offended the beliefs of other religious group or denomination.... I'M VERY SORRY.

But if you believe in the BIBLE, i don't think you have to oppose what I have cited besides it's not my opinion or idea or thought... it is written in the BIBLE, you can check the verse if you are doubtful.

"The purpose of religion is not to believe in what your preacher says, or what the Bible, Kuran, or any references' texts says, but for our lives to have a direction. Be it a Christian, a Moslem, Hindi, Buddhist, even Atheist, or whatever religious group, the most important thing is that we believe in something or someone powerful enough to influence our thoughts, thus leading us to a path we knew is worth traversing."

Maybe this opinion is based mainly really on your own or have read from other references, for if you consult the BIBLE.. you will find this verse...

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
(Rom 10:14)

Again this is not my pronouncement but i've taken it from the BIBLE. How can you have a direction if you are like the reed shaken by the wind? or being tossed to and fro by different thoughts & teachings? If you really want to lead a path worth traversing consider this verses...

Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
(Jer 6:16)

All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them. They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
(Pro 8:8-9)


BUT... BUT if in any way you do not beleive the BIBLE and have other books & references, we don't have a point to argue hehehe! Hope this thread turns out to be HEALTHY... PEACE OUT BROTHER!

Nice to have a good topic for discussion here in the forum. Again, big thanks to Tita Emma.

IMHO means IN MY HUMBLE OPINION (in forum/chat lingo, just like LOL for laugh out loud). Sorry po kung gumamit ako ng HASTY. I guess generalization would suffice then.

I myself is a Christian. Roman Catholic to be precise. All my statement are purely based on my opinion, after interacting with people of different religions. With Religion, I mean Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and others, even Atheism, not different sects or variation of a certain religion. My statement regarding "path worth traversing", I guess you are a living proof. You're living and traversing a path you believe is the right one, am I right? It is evident that you have made the Bible as a guide for your life. That's what I mean. That is religion.

I have nothing against the Bible and its being the holy Christian book. My point is how people believe in something that they do not see or feel. For instance, if you have a cat and one afternoon your neighbor told you that your cat is dead, would you believe without even investigating and seeing it for yourself? I guess not. Probably you would ask for details, like where is the cat's body, what or who killed it, sort of things. Same with religion. All claim to be the truth. But how can you tell? The answer is FAITH. It answers everything. If you have faith, you're confident that what you believe is true.

But to see the big picture, you have to see things in different views. Since you have made the Bible as your reference, then I guess this example is worth thinking about. Noah's story has the same parallel story in other religions. The great flood. The big ship. The animals. All are exactly parallel, except that the names (of course) and the time (hundreds of years I think) are different. Who then tells the truth? And if one claims that they are telling the truth, would it mean that the other is not? I guess you would say that what you believe is true. And if we have something to believe in, our heart is usually denying the other beliefs.

You are a devoted Christian, or so it seems, and I have nothing against that. Because you have traversed that path. But what about the others who are living a good life, but are Hindi? are Moslems? are Buddhists? are they the reeds shaken by the wind?

Something to think about. Here's a 26-minute video. It's worth a watch. But if you don't want to do rational thinking, then don't watch.

[GVideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8461754114455236037&hl=en[/GVideo]

Hi Philip mukhang magiging best buddies tayo dito sa forum na toh ah , we have the same interest. I know some of us here if not all also seeks GOD and the TRUTH.

We are discussing things for the sake of LEARNING, right? And that which are proven true should stand and those that are erroneous should be abolished. You profess to be a "Christian" so we have the Bible as our medium to clear out any unclear thoughts & ideas. A simple definition of a "Christian" is one who follows Christ or a follower of His doctrine and teachings otherwise you cannot call yourself a "Christian" if you are a follower of Buddha, Shinto or Mohammed. When we say follower it's also synanymous to a believer, why would you follow if you don't believe. I'll cite a verse declared by our recognized leader & pastor... Christ (for we are called Christians because we are followers of Christ)

Kung ang sinomang tao'y naglilingkod sa akin, ay sumunod sa akin; at kung saan ako naroroon, ay doon naman doroon ang lingkod ko: kung ang sinomang tao'y maglingkod sa akin, ay siya'y pararangalan ng Ama.
(Joh 12:26)

If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
(Joh 12:26)

So kung sinabi nya LEFT, left tayo... pag sinabi nya RIGHT, syempre right tayo, follow lang tayo OK ba yon? If any man serve me, let him follow me...

Now regarding REINCARNATION, God said And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
(Heb 9:27)

As Christians dapat wala tayong inconsistensies, itinakda tayong mamatay na minsan at pagkatapos ay ang paghuhukom. This is very sensical & logical di ba, let's apply this pronouncement the other way around. For example nabuhay ka bilang si Tarpulano na mabait na tao pagkatapos namatay ka, tapos nabuhay ka ulit bilang si Diego na magnanakaw at mamamatay-tao at kung ilang beses ka pang nabuhay at kung ano ano pa ang mga pinaggagawa sa palagay mo sa paghuhukom paano ka hahatulan o kaninong pagkatao ka hahatulan? eh kung naging unggoy ka pa o baka o buwaya ( di kasi consistent ang belief na Reincarnation) paano na sa paghuhukom, di ba magulo?

Pag FAITH ang pinag-uusapan dapat you should not base it on your own opinion, as "Christians" we have our teacher and we have our own doctrine. Now regarding the Hindus, the Muslims, or Buddhist... they also have their own beliefs but will that affect you? Will you be swayed by their doctrines & beliefs? of course not, you are a Christian, right? You have your guide the BIBLE, will you be swayed? or tossed to & fro? Now, if you incorporate foreign beliefs with the beliefs you have now and you know its not from Christ, can you still consider yourself a "Christian" or a follower of Christ?

Masyado na mahaba post ko, we'll discuss pa the video you attached. Too boring na magbasa pag mahaba so i'll pause for now.

REGARDS TO ALL!

I have my religion by authority, which is a bad way of believing. I am a born Christian, probably because I have no power to oppose my parents at the time I was baptized as one, do I? But just like other scientists, I do not seek truth, but facts to prove the truth. I do not seek God, for I do not deny his existence. I believe in One Almighty being, the one responsible for all the things that cannot be explained by mere Science.

I was trained to be a rational thinker, to seek evidence to prove any theory or claim in whatever context. It is in this respect that I do not reject the possibility of other views, for in order to arrive at a factual conclusion, you have to consider everything. You have to make sure that all sides have been given justice. That no other possibilities have been neglected.

Hope to see more opinions regarding this topic from the other members.

Best regards.

well, well, well,,, do we need a pastor here? calling the attention of Salvador Reyes? what's your opinion about this discussion? sa palagay ko both of you are correct. ang kailangan lang natin ay ang PAGGALANG sa bawat relihiyon ng bawat isa. i myself been to a lot of religions, at present am working with my boss who's religion is a budhist. she thought me about reincarnation and some other things regarding their belief, i just listen and nod my head everytime we discuss, and she do the same as i explain christianity to her. we both respect each others belief that's why we get along well. When she came home from visiting their mosque, the first thing she told me was "emma, I pray to our gods (their gods) that you will have a happy life.....etc..." and of course...ganun din ako...(vice-versa bah). so, kailangan lang talaga dito eh respeto.
minsan, pinipilit nya pa akong maniwala na sya daw noon (million years ago) eh mahirap lang kaya ngayon nareincarnate sya ay naging mayaman na...well, eto naman ang sa akin. kung sakali (kung sakali) lang ha na may reincarnation ang gusto kong maging ay.....maging AKO pa rin, itatama ko lang ang mga kamaliang nagawa ko sa buhay, at least may idea na ako kung paano pag iibayuhin pa ang aking pagkatao kasi alam ko na ang ibang nagdaan sa buhay ko eh.
yung lang po at maraming salamat sa inyo....Bow....

Nice to have bright minds here in the forum. "Ninang" Emma, hehe, Ninang na nga siguro itatawag ko sa iyo. Ilang days pa lang akong member ng forum but I really am enjoying my stay. Hope to virtually meet more Acojenians.

Hope to have more discussions in the future, too.

Best regards.

Well i guess we are left for now to continue this discussion maybe after some time they'll show interest. You say you have a bad way of believing? Sounds like you are not a Christian by choice? . I understand that, i was onced confused too but after some searching and thinking i made my decision to tread this path.... being a Christian. Of course it's easy to say "I'm a Christian" but claiming is one thing and proving is another thing. Some will say I know Jesus, I believe in Him but is that enough to consider oneself as Christian? St. John wrote this...

Ang nagsasabing, Nakikilala ko siya, at hindi tumutupad ng kaniyang mga utos, ay sinungaling, at ang katotohanan ay wala sa kaniya;
(1Juan 2:4)

Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
(1Jo 2:4)

Sometimes the truth hurts but learning to accept it benifits us, there are those who say they are Christian but they really doesn't know how it is ought to be a Christian. They are "Christian by mouth" not by deeds & understanding. You say you are a scientist, well Christians are taught to be scientist too, to test all things and not to believe instantly unless proven true. Being a scientist will work fine for you, keep that way of thinking coz Christians practice it to & are taught to be one.

Mga minamahal, huwag kayong magsipaniwala sa bawa't espiritu, kundi inyong subukin ang mga espiritu, kung sila'y sa Dios: sapagka't maraming nagsilitaw na mga bulaang propeta sa sanglibutan.
(1Juan 4:1)

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
(1Jo 4:1)



Being a "rational thinker" is vital to everyone especially Christians but the truth is you can't posibly know the WHOLE truth in a lifetime. Some truths are discovered after a decade, a score & sometimes centuries. For example the earth, before Galileo's time believed that the earth was the center of the universe and everything revolves around it. Galileo was even excommunicated by the Catholic church and sentenced as heretic when he supported Copernicus theory that the Sun is the Center of the universe. Today it is no longer a theory but a fact.

Here's a link comparing a rational thinker and a paranoid.
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/conspiracy ... anoid.html

And another truth is we cannot contain all the truths that is around us because of our limited capabilities. We can't play God or act like God, we are finite while He is infinite.

Sapagka't ang aking mga pagiisip ay hindi ninyo mga pagiisip, o ang inyo mang mga lakad ay aking mga lakad, sabi ng Panginoon. Sapagka't kung paanong ang langit ay lalong mataas kay sa lupa, gayon ang aking mga lakad ay lalong mataas kay sa inyong mga lakad, at ang aking mga pagiisip kay sa inyong mga pagiisip.
(Isa 55:8-9)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
(Isa 55:8-9)

There are so many Truths in the bible which is until now a mystery or have not reach the understanding of our people until now. For example the 3 wise men mentioned in the video you attached, if you read the bible very carefully & meticulously like a true scientist and a rational thinker, you will find out that never in the bible was any mention of the "3 wise men!". So much for a trivia hahaha , super sa haba na ito... grabe super nobela na hahaha! marami pa sana kaya lang masakit na sa mata.

I'll leave you a verse concerning the thoughts of a Great King and lived to be a very wise man.. King Solomon. He wrote this in the bible

When I applied mine heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done upon the earth: (for also there is that neither day nor night seeth sleep with his eyes:) then I beheld all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because however much a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea moreover, though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.
(Ecc 8:16-17)

Believe me my little brother, this is the ultimate truth! Hope you'll find the real meaning of a true Christian in your lifetime.

Exactly. Then how can you say that it's the ultimate truth? That what you believe is the TRUTH? Your only basis is the Bible. Jesus' life, if he indeed existed, made a mark in other people's lives, positively (to his followers) and negatively (to his opposers). There are so many historians before, during, and after Jesus' Life. How come no one ever wrote about this controversial Man/Son of God? Do you think no one would ever dare to write or document his life? You always refer to the Bible, so it is safe to assume that you're answer to this question would still be "The Bible".

But the Bible is written by humans. Did Jesus ever write a single article that is included in the Bible? No. His apostles did. And worst, they are not even Filipinos, or Americans, or English men. So how can people be assured that what they are reading "are" exactly the original? Context and meaning of words are changed, and worst, lost, after translating to other languages and passing on to the other generations. And who collated the writings of the apostles and decided which should be included and which should be not? Constantine. I guess you know this, for if you really are a Christian, you will definitely know the history of your religion. Constantine is a Pagan. The present connotation of a Pagan is negative, "anti-Christianity" some say. But during the pre-Christian era, Pagan is nothing but a Religion. A common force that drives the believers. Constantine's conversion to Christianity is still a controversy up to this writing, whether he "voluntarily" converted or was "forced" to, since he wasn't converted until he was in death bed.



Thanks for the link. Now I am more confident of myself that I really do rational thinking. Hope you have read that one, especially the item number 3
Rational Thinker - 3. Seeks a realistic answer in simple and familiar processes.
Paranoid - 3. Invokes complex, unrealistic scenarios controlled by powerful forces behind the scenes.

and number 9
Rational Thinker - 9. Accepts all demonstrated evidence.
Paranoid - 9. Will not face evidence that destroys his theory.

There is an inconsistency in your premise. You said we can't possibly know the WHOLE truth in a lifetime, yet you're making me believe that what you believe is the ultimate truth? I beg to disagree. I have made myself clear that I do not just believe because I was "made to" or "ordered to" believe, unless clear evidences are presented.



Again, an inconsistency. So many Truths which is still a mystery? Which have not been reached by the understanding of our people until now? Then how did you made the conclusion that what you believe is indeed the TRUTH? Bombarding me with so many excerpts from the Bible isn't an effective way.



That was not from me. I am merely presenting the other possibilities, which, as I have said earlier, could be the truth, or could be otherwise. The "3 wise men" are not Christian belief, but Catholic. And you are not one. You're a member of "Ang Dating Daan", if my investigation is correct.



Thanks for the advise, but I already made my self clear. I'll return the favor - PEACE OUT BROTHER!

Exactly. Then how can you say that it's the ultimate truth? That what you believe is the TRUTH? Your only basis is the Bible. Jesus' life, if he indeed existed, made a mark in other people's lives, positively (to his followers) and negatively (to his opposers). There are so many historians before, during, and after Jesus' Life. How come no one ever wrote about this controversial Man/Son of God? Do you think no one would ever dare to write or document his life? You always refer to the Bible, so it is safe to assume that you're answer to this question would still be "The Bible".

But the Bible is written by humans. Did Jesus ever write a single article that is included in the Bible? No. His apostles did. And worst, they are not even Filipinos, or Americans, or English men. So how can people be assured that what they are reading "are" exactly the original? Context and meaning of words are changed, and worst, lost, after translating to other languages and passing on to the other generations. And who collated the writings of the apostles and decided which should be included and which should be not? Constantine. I guess you know this, for if you really are a Christian, you will definitely know the history of your religion. Constantine is a Pagan. The present connotation of a Pagan is negative, "anti-Christianity" some say. But during the pre-Christian era, Pagan is nothing but a Religion. A common force that drives the believers. Constantine's conversion to Christianity is still a controversy up to this writing, whether he "voluntarily" converted or was "forced" to, since he wasn't converted until he was in death bed.



Thanks for the link. Now I am more confident of myself that I really do rational thinking. Hope you have read that one, especially the item number 3
Rational Thinker - 3. Seeks a realistic answer in simple and familiar processes.
Paranoid - 3. Invokes complex, unrealistic scenarios controlled by powerful forces behind the scenes.

and number 9
Rational Thinker - 9. Accepts all demonstrated evidence.
Paranoid - 9. Will not face evidence that destroys his theory.

There is an inconsistency in your premise. You said we can't possibly know the WHOLE truth in a lifetime, yet you're making me believe that what you believe is the ultimate truth? I beg to disagree. I have made myself clear that I do not just believe because I was "made to" or "ordered to" believe, unless clear evidences are presented.



Again, an inconsistency. So many Truths which is still a mystery? Which have not been reached by the understanding of our people until now? Then how did you made the conclusion that what you believe is indeed the TRUTH? Bombarding me with so many excerpts from the Bible isn't an effective way.



That was not from me. I am merely presenting the other possibilities, which, as I have said earlier, could be the truth, or could be otherwise. The "3 wise men" are not Christian belief, but Catholic. And you are not one. You're a member of "Ang Dating Daan", if my investigation is correct.



Thanks for the advise, but I already made my self clear. I'll return the favor - PEACE OUT BROTHER!

You completely missed the point my little brother, what am i refering to when i said it's the ultimate truth? I'll post it again and try to refute.

When I applied mine heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done upon the earth: (for also there is that neither day nor night seeth sleep with his eyes:) then I beheld all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because however much a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea moreover, though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.
(Ecc 8:16-17)

Now, can anybody claim to have found everything that is done under the sun? What is your answer? Does this pronouncement "ultimate" or true only to a limited time and will eventually be proven false. It was written pressumably around 1000 BC and nobody dared to refute it unless you dare to challenge it. Let us apply "The rational thinker vs. the paranoid" article or set of accepted stardard. (You used it which implies you agree to said comparison).

Rational Thinker - 3. Seeks a realistic answer in simple and familiar processes.
Paranoid - 3. Invokes complex, unrealistic scenarios controlled by powerful forces behind the scenes.

Realistic or not?

Rational Thinker - 9. Accepts all demonstrated evidence.
Paranoid - 9. Will not face evidence that destroys his theory.

You'll be the evidence, can you or can you not find all that is done under the sun? Or you can present someone who have claimed to have found everything under the sun, past or present.



Of course, even the textbooks you have been reading from kindergarten til now are written by humans. But have you made those textbooks and writings as a tool for learning? You are living in a world filled with humans, it would be odd if a Martian or a Neptunian claimed to have written the bible. It'll be more strange if a goat or a chicken was instrumental in writing the bible, it is intended for humans so logically humans will write it. Detractors of the Bible always insist that it is written by humans. They always resort to this, it never fails they always say this. Which also contradicts themselves because the knowledge they have acquired were also from writings written by humans who have preceeded them, very funny. You can attest to this, where have you acquired your knowledge? From within? or from colleges where almost all students are dependent on textbooks.



Jesus was a preacher and has His own way of writing, all His "vital" teachings were written in the bible. Correction, not all who wrote were apostles some were evangelists like Luke and Mark (I'm refering to the New Testament). What is it with the Americans or Englishmen or Filipinos? Are you trying to imply that they are more reliable than the Israelites? Where did Jesus lived or have lived his life, is it in the Philipines? America? England? or in Israel? You are being irrational, Jesus lived in Israel so what do you expect? What's worst with that? I think it is more worst if a Filipino or an American or an Englishman's writing is included in the bible. It is logical that no Filipino or American or Englishman ever wrote in the bible because Jesus' audience were from Israel so Israelites will write, they heard it first hand. Is it rational or irrational?



You only refer to the original when you are in doubt, it is translated into other languages for convenience. If I presented you the Latin Vulgate or the Codex Vaticanus will you posibly understand it unless you translate it into English or Tagalog? Use your rational thinking & being a scientist, St. John said test the spirits. You're free to decide whether to accept it or reject it. Bible teachings and doctrines are in conformity with moral standards, so what's the worry? I'll cite some verses from the bible...

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother (which is the first commandment with promise),
(Eph 6:1-2)

And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but nurture them in the chastening and admonition of the Lord.
(Eph 6:4)

Ang nagnanakaw ay huwag nang magnakaw pa: bagkus magpagal, na igawa ang kaniyang mga kamay ng mabuting bagay, upang siya'y may maibigay sa nangangailangan.
(Eph 4:28 )

Deu 5:17-21 Thou shalt not kill. (18 ) Neither shalt thou commit adultery. (19) Neither shalt thou steal. (20) Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor. (21) Neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's wife; neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's house, his field, or his man-servant, or his maid-servant, his ox, or his ass, or anything that is thy neighbor's.

Will you still consult the original? Only in controversies, consult the original manuscripts.

Like I said & will stick to it, you cannot posibly know everything that is done under the sun. I will not pretend to be all knowing or play God. I am not God and there are limitations to what I know, and I can only share the things i know (to the best of my ability and belief with God's help of course). Constantine is a great roman emperor as to what I know. Whether Constantine is a Pagan or a Catholic I do not know (even the web in which I rely some of my informations doesn't confirm or deny this) It is said that he legalized Christianity but I am not convinced.



I already made it clear, i was refering to Ecclesiates 8:16-17 as an ultimate truth that you cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. The reason is that we are finite & limited, we only have a lifetime to live. You say you have a bad way of believing, i can clearly see that... but what do you mean by clear evidences, physical? Christian don't just rely on things seen but also the unseen.

while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
(2Co 4:18 )

and we call it faith...

Now faith is the assurance of things we hope for, the certainty of things we cannot see.
(Heb 11:1)

Although not seen, we are certain. As our Lord has said,

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
(Joh 20:27-29)



You separated my example, my example as a Truth not yet understood by our people is the "3 wise men" or the "3 kings" to others. They were made to believe that there were "3 wise men" or "3 kings" who visited Jesus, which is not true. How did I come to believe? I read the bible and there really was no 3 wise men or 3 kings written in any of the 4 gospel. There was no inconsistency.



I can only say what Paul has said to a KING...

King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know that you believe." And Agrippa said to Paul, "In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?" And Paul said, "Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am--except for these chains."
(Act 26:27-29)

Haring Agripa, naniniwala ka baga sa mga propeta? Nalalaman kong naniniwala ka. At sinabi ni Agripa kay Pablo, Sa kakaunting paghikayat ay ibig mo akong maging Cristiano. At sinabi ni Pablo, Loobin nawa ng Dios, na sa kakaunti o sa marami man, ay hindi lamang ikaw, kundi pati ng lahat ng mga nagsisipakinig sa akin ngayon, ay pawang maging katulad ko naman, tangi lamang sa mga tanikalang ito.
(Act 26:27-29)

You claimed to be a Christian but from what i am getting, you are rather confused or skeptic is a more close adjective. Christians are followers of Christ and the bible is their primary book. I can say I am a student of Christ and I strictly follow what my teacher's instruction and I am not ashamed to use the bible as my guide in life. Christ said and i'll qoute:

If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
(Joh 12:26)

We are discussing things for the SAKE OF LEARNING and not to malign or disgrace anybody or any particular group or affinity. If in my way of writing have caused any ill-feeling to anybody, MY APOLOGY... it is how the way I write and I am willing to be corrected if need be.

REGARDS TO ALL!

First of all, I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts. And also thanks to Tita Emma (who started this topic, though parang kelangan na yata natin ng forum moderator? Haha. Nagsimula kasi sa Reincarnation ni Tita Emma to e. Ang haba na ng usapan namin. Wala namang sumasali.) Okay, back to discussion.

I think my point was clear from the very beginning, and I can summarize it in a few words - "There are always two sides of a story". That is why whatever people believe to be true as of this day, isn't guaranteed to be still true after some time. We both agree to this, for you also stated this in your writing


And also from you


Does it mean that, because no one ever refute it, it means it's the TRUTH already? From 1000BC to 2007, if no one has ever found evidences to disprove your belief, it's the TRUTH already? How would you react if in 2008, or 2009, or even when we died (which makes it more impossible for us to say if it's the TRUTH or not), someone found the evidences that will disprove your belief? We'll just say that "It's because in our time, that was thought to be true"? That "Our time was different from yours"?

I'll quote myself, and please read it continuously. Sentences will differ in meaning if altered/separated from succeeding sentences.

My point here is how Filipinos, Americans, or English men (and any other) be assured that what they are reading contains all the exact messages conveyed (I used people in "So how can people..." to avoid racism). Translated for convenience? Then WHAT IF (again, to reiterate my point from the very beginning, I'm always looking at the other possibilities), in order to provide CONVENIENCE and to avoid further confusions for the followers, the texts were modified so as to create a positive effect, even if it means deletion or removal of the inconvenient TRUTH? If you want to write something and you want everybody to believe you, you can always achieve it by your style of writing. By avoiding those things that would create confusions, you would probably resort to the "norms", so as to get more and more believers, then slowly get into your main point, but since you have created a good "foundation" or "impression" to people, then there is high probability that they will follow whatever you say. Conformity to moral standards you say? Intended for humans? Then the Bible is written by humans, translated for convenience, then served as a source of knowledge or belief, just like other college textbooks, the content of which, can be proven true or false, now, tomorrow, in the near, or very far future.



You missed the point. I'm not a 5-year-old boy here to think of this? "Worst" is also used as an idiomatic expression for "at isa pa...". The Israelites heard it first hand, then how about you? Second hand? Nope. Third hand? Not even near to being one. We all know that even second hand information are altered in one way or another. So what more if it's translated many times from generations to generations?



Hay... read your statement again, and look for an inconsistency. Have you seen it? "Truth not yet understood by our people is the "3 wise men"... who visited Jesus, which is not true". Truth not yet understood, which is not true? Huh?

My way of arriving at a factual conclusion is by repeatedly asking questions. And by analyzing how people construct their thoughts, especially in forums where you don't have the opportunity to shake hands with the people you're discussing with. And by this way of analysis, I will again construct questions to finally arrive at my conclusion, which is in itself either TRUE or FALSE. I do not deny that my thoughts at the present time are still falsifiable or not, for as a human being, I do not know everything. I can clearly deduce from your statements that you are devotedly believing to what you believe is TRUE, and rejects any possibility. Then let it be.

Best regards.

WOW!!!!!!!! what a great people you all are here, you find time to type those of that you have post here, keep on posting so we can keep on reading

thanks

Haha. I miss this intellectual discussion with Kuya Rommel Gabriel (tama ba). Kuya, thanks again for sharing your thoughts here. Best regards.